Hmm so Ex-girlfriend "feels it" sometimes

[jonathondd]

So I've been in touch with my ex again- we would talk and she'd ask me if I knew what went wrong with the relationship and I told her yeah and I wouldn't want to lose something like that again, she'd say things like "well its not all lost...." We had breakfast together the other day and I asked her what she meant about that- and she said she doesn't want to rush into anything because she "feels" it sometimes with me and other times she doesn't feel anything. She compares me with the current guy shes with a lot- telling me over and over that he doesn't "get" her the way I do. When I ask her why she doesn't just break up with him she says she's really bad at breakups and that she sees me more than she sees him.....yeah ok.

Since grounding I've been starting to believe more and more that women are innocent and have no power at all, that they're easily influenced by other men. Before that during my porn addiction I'd always think of them as being manipulative. So I do feel a vibe that she's being a bit manipulative here in that maybe she should decide already if she wants to get back with me- but then I start to think that maybe as a man I should be the one leading....but then I think that since she broke up with me all those months ago she should be the one to initiate things with me again....but then I remember that none of those mind games matter as long as theres strong attraction! Whew.

I've been grounding everydayfor at least 10 minutes(not getting emotional each time though), with some relapses here and there into porn(which get me suuper depressed as I logically realize its fake and not what I want in a woman, but that emotional attatchment isn't completely gone. If I'm in a bad mood I'm more likely to wanna watch porn!). I definitely notice a difference- I am talking to more women and making "connections"- but they seem to be more interpersonal connections with not much flirting going on. I'm being as natural as I can during conversation- getting all that PUA stuff to force myself to sound "cool" out of the way.

Well anyway- what could be the reason for her to feel strong attraction to me at times- and not strong attraction at other times? Perhaps it was one of those times I relapsed into porn that would make her lose it? She's always getting mixed messages from other people when it comes to relationships- especially females who tell her things like "fuck men they're all assholes" or "you probably aren't meant to be with anybody"- but I do believe that if attraction is strong enough none of that nonsense matters anyway. Hmm lol I do kinda expect the answer to my overthinking to be "Do more grounding!" and that's true.

Definitely the type of grounding I'm doing has a huge effect. Usually I watch some SNSD-kissing you before I go out- but the other day I watched some Palmy-Glua instead and I felt a bit down and in a sad mood. So gotta be careful.

[thekiller]

She probably "feels" it more for you when your indifferent. She shows a little interest in getting back with you and then you start pursuing her, killing her attraction. IF you want to hang out with her do it, but let go of the idea of getting her back. You literally have a whole Globe full of women to hook up with why be stuck in her orbit? She broke up with you and hasn't got her shit together. Plus if she's seeing this other guy but spends more time with you she's being sketchy. How can you trust a woman that acts like that? As soon as you stop fearing loss THEN you will truly have nothing to lose.

[jonathondd]

She probably "feels" it more for you when your indifferent. She shows a little interest in getting back with you and then you start pursuing her, killing her attraction. IF you want to hang out with her do it, but let go of the idea of getting her back. You literally have a whole Globe full of women to hook up with why be stuck in her orbit? She broke up with you and hasn't got her shit together. Plus if she's seeing this other guy but spends more time with you she's being sketchy. How can you trust a woman that acts like that? As soon as you stop fearing loss THEN you will truly have nothing to lose.

Just what I needed to hear to knock me upside the head with some truth! lol if I were to make an excuse, I'd say that today being Valentine's day got me a bit emotional about it since it reminded me of memoeries past. But you're absolutely right- I'm talking to 2 women now(both who have their shit together and are more stimulating) and I have no reason to brush them off just to try things with this lady. I think a part of me still has the urge to want to "protect" her beacuse I see her as a woman who does not have her shit together and it would hurt me to see her continue to make dumb mistakes and hurt herself. After the breakup I cut off contact with her and she became super-depressed and would go on to do things to herself that I won't mention, so a part of me feels like I need to be there for her. But I suppose there's that other part of me that sees "being there for her" as an opportunity to get back with her or something! I will work on letting that go.

I have a bit of a history of being friend-zoned, so being friend-zoned by my ex(I've never gotten as intimiate emotionally as I have with this woman) reallllllllllly really bothers me. But I think the whole idea of friend-zone goes out the window when I consider that all women are supposed to be attracted to me naturally. Whoa man- a lot of the PUA stuff really keeps you in the overthinking mode- makes me real glad to have found out about Rion.

[thekiller]

Glad I could help man, we all need a kick sometimes. I know what your talking about though my last girlfriend threatened to hurt herself when I broke up with her, she was very dramatic which was one of the reasons I broke it off. Trust me when I say that it is manipulation on her part, whether or not she actually hurts herself. This is not the kind of energy you need to be around. Honestly if I were in your shoes I wouldn't even be friends with her, I have no contact with my exDramaQueen.

[jonathondd]

Hmm well after some thinking and feeling- I think my attatchment to her(we were planning to get married so it was a bit important) is that I'm really put off from the idea of her not being attracted to me. Its a hard blow to my self-esteem cuz I always thought "hey of all people at least she'll always have deep feelings for me"- but that's definitely coming from a scarcity mentality. I have some more natural grounding to do to get myself back together cuz at this point even if I'm not getting back with her- I feel great when I hear that she's attracted to me, and pretty down when she doesn't. Completely letting go from her would help out a lot.

[zuprion]

Dude, you sooo remind me of my old self. I'm not even saying once in a rare while though even now, I don't still get a flash of the neediness toward women. There is some neediness left in me though, as I'm realizing now. If you aren't aware enough, the neediness will rechannel itself into other areas of your life (ie: financial). This may not sound like a big deal, but the reason I believe it is because it can then show up again in old areas! (women) You have to always be checking yourself. NG obviously helps. It's all about state management.

Anyway, that's worrying about neediness showing up in other areas obviously isn't your main thing right now. Regarding the ex, the best advice I can give you is to cut her out completely in a polite but very firm way. The thing she may not realize is that she can't be attracted to you in that OMG I don't know what it is about this guy that makes me go crazy kind of way, if she doesn't RESPECT you. In case you don't see it, think of it this way: The reason she can't respect you, is because you have an interest in her in a non-platonic way, and you are HANGING AROUND. You even used to date, and were almost married. Bro, trust me on this one, if you want a true shot with her (where you can actually BOTH be happy), the first thing you need to do is cut her out. From now on, she's either not in your life or in a relationship with you.

In fact, make an alpha rule that you aren't "friends" with women period. I personally think it's unnatural, expect maybe in a very rare case where there's absoilutley no chance of ANY attraction creeping up. Otherwise, how can there ever be trust? I made this rule and it's the best thing I ever did. It aligns a lot of things naturally, for example turning your attention to being around guy friends, which gets you in touch with your masculine energy more often. Right now, you are basing your worth off of whether she responds to you. In extreme cases, people end up in sex rehab for this kind of behavior. Since she's apparently not even an honest person, stop and reflect on that for a moment. You're basing your worth off of what a DISHONEST woman does toward you from day to day. Who do you think has the power?

Now, I've been there too so I know that it's not just about logic. Your emotion is completely blinding you because it's a natural male trait to want to protect women. It's not your role though as much as it may feel like it is. She may have unresolved trust issues that she's unconsciously repressing. It may SEEM admirable to want to be chivalrous TO YOU, but there's also an element of FANTASY sex that you're caught up in here, which is procrastinating your progress of moving forward toward REAL sex with OTHER women. Technically speaking, right now she's not even available to you, just like any other hot chic in a porn video. Ever think of it that way? You're channeling your grounding energy towards a woman who is with another guy.

You're going to be grounding and changing your physiology permanently soon as you get more emotional and have more sessions. Ground your ass off until you are oozing the sex! The other thing is, get more options and if possible, let her see that you have them in a very indifferent manner. THEN, once she's chasing YOU, you can set some ground rules with her IF you even want her by then. Why would you even want her if it's not on your terms? The thing I didn't realize though is that once you've transformed, your entire taste in women goes up levels. Plus, think about it, if she's hanging around with an EX while she's with another guy, do you honestly think she won't do the same to you even if you were James Bond? Have you ever read the little story about the scorpion and the frog? Greatest part is once you don't need anything, you won't have to decide whether you'll allow drama into your life or not. Instead, you just won't. You'll be too busy smiling all day. As Tolle says, you won't need suffering anymore.

What I also learned was that it wasn't an accident that when I hadn't taken care of my emotional issues, I was attracted to and attracting women who also had them. These things are never accidents. Take care of the relationship with yourself first. It's the most important one you will ever have. If you break through and get to where you don't need anything but the sun, everything else will take care of itself. The only way you will ever make this girl go nuts for you like never before is if you can TRULY be so immersed in your life OUTSIDE of women that you barely have time for her. Her attraction will go through the roof, and by then you won't need her. Like Borat would say, "Success." Actually, double success. Start reading Marcus' and Etienne's wisdom about not needing anything. Guess this is a long post, but is one that I really identified with so who gives a ****.

[jonathondd]

Whoa man you hit the nail on the head right there. Like I definitely realize just how ridiculous I'm being- and its as if im holding onto some fantasy that if I dont stick around i'll never have her...when the reality is I don't have her anyway and when I compare her to other women I meet....why do I even want her?

She definitely has unresolved trust issues(she used to be married and was in a very abusive relationship, physically and emotionally) as well....and for awhile I wanted to help her fix that- but if we're not even dating then its not really my problem anymore. I always thought about that and felt uncomfortable about her even wanting to hang out with me while she's with someone else- because I definitely don't tolerate that kinda shit when I'm with a woman. I gotta stop being afraid of being authentic about my own beliefs. Thanks a lot man- more work to do but the other option is wasting time so why not!

[jonathondd]

And thinking about it...not only do I kinda place my self-worth on how attracted she feels for me- but I seem to place my self-worth on how any woman feels about me. I get sooo elated when I find out a woman is attracted me- and completely down if I feel that they're not. lol I have some female friends that I am really attracted to(some of them I only started feeling attracted to after natural grounding!), but I still have this blockage in my head thats stopping me from making a move on them that's all like "oh wait you're just friends she's obviously not interested at all". A lot of it is from past insecurities where I told a woman I was interested in her and got rejected and heard the old "we're just friends! I like your company but thats it". I've tried the sedona method for it and it does work for a period then I get swings back in the wrong direction again(although I Do guess Im not consistent with the sedona method) Its like I feel nervous and feel that the woman should start flirting with me- but then again so many of them are insecure and shy themselves they might feel the same way.

I guess I get frustrated hearing about other guys more developed than me in grounding having women flirt and touch them while they're not even doing anything- and I feel like I'm waiting for that to happen and not getting anywhere. I'm starting to understand a lot more than before just how much poision stuff like porn is, just looking at a little bit re-starts a cycle that my body is still used to of valuing the fantasy. Once I do that my self-esteem takes a big hit and I don't even feel like going out or anything until I've grounded myself to be "attractive again".

One thing that I've figured out...is that I used to be a heavy marjuana smoker(still occasionally)...and everytime I smoke and Im by myself...I WILL watch porn my emotions will completely convince me that I'm strong enough to watch it and it'll be no big deal. lol I dont think MJ is a dangerous drug but its definitely not helping at this point- so I think I'll keep it sober from now on. Maybe smoke it again when I'm really back in power and not using it to escape my issues.

Any of this making sense?

[zuprion]

Jonathon, yes it all makes pefect sense. You're dealing with a lot of the same stuff other guys are going through. Recognize that your behavioral tendencies are all SYMPTOMS, not the ROOT. Write down what you think you causes and effects are on a blank sheet of paper. You can't fix the root if you don't know what the root is. Porn and MJ are not the root. Rion talks a lot about identifying your causes and changing them to better ones in recent RelMs. As someone who is a little further down the actual path you're looking for, I can say (almost with certainty), that your solutions are:

1) Natural grounding: Technically all of these things you mentioned can be helped considerably by natural grounding. However, you have to learn how to get into non-egoic states. The thing is if you haven't "broken through" to be able to do this consistently (or even getting there yet for the first time), that's why you're still frustrated. I say this because when it happened to me the first time, there was no denying it. You will be high fiving your self. Then, it all gets easier.

2) Presence: Buy the Power of Now audio version (and New Earth audio verion if you want), get it onto your iPod. Make the focus of your life practicing presence. Also check out all of Eckhart Tolle's videos on YouTube for help, and his web site where he has some videos now. You can have full confidence what he's saying.

3) YangTown sexual energy eBoook: Go to YangTown's web site and read the free PDF eBook. It talks about how to get rid of porn forever.

4) Cable tv: get rid of it and don't look back. (Watch it in 90 days or later for 5 mins and flip through a bunch of channels and see how poisonous this new experience feels. It may sounds obvious but you won't actually know what that experience feels like until you actually do it.) Then, if you want to ever watch tv, see if you can download them from web sites without the commercials.

5) Recondition: Change your mindset right now to committing to this no matter what. Also realize this is a gradual process, although when grounding properly things can happen overnight. One of the keys is not to expect anything. Expectations are ALL egoic. With the natural grounding, a lot of this is learning how to "get out of your own way". There are generally two ways you get in your way: 1) Not knowing how to be present before you start grounding 2) Not grounding enough (onlly happens because you're not grounding correctly) You have to remember that this is a behavioral reconditioning process. Each guy's success depends upon how much mud is on his diamond. You have to recondition. Think of it as a reconditioning war against the enemy: your mind. Then, stop thinking because thinking gives the enemy power. Just be. "Be the ball Danny."

6) Energy: Start thinking of people as who they truly are, not who your mind thinks of them as. They are energy. Then remember that all energy is equal.

7) Experience: get online and get some easy dates. Consciously forget EVERYTHING in terms of what to say and stuff when you meet up with her. Just focus on being present all day every day (tough to attain but the important part is that you shoot for it.) the more you ground, you'll notice less and less thought in your head and more joy which is beautiful. You'll become lighter and happier in your own energy. You'll no longer need validation (once your states start to become lasting), although you'll get women's validation consistently which is nice. However, the validation will come in a new form. It will appear to you as a SEXUAL connection, not a social or physical or interpersonal connection. (Read Marcus' posts about not wanting anything to help your mindset.) Just do online dating, meet women, forget about approaching until your confidence is through the roof. Then, you will have women around so you will either not need to approach, or if you need to it will be easy.

8 ) "Check yourself fool!": This is a quote from the character McLovin in the movie Superbad when the cops let him fire their gun at their police car. Hilarious. In this reference, it means CHECK YOUR NEEDINESS. Constantly! If you find a shred of it, DON'T THINK or berate yourself. Let me repeat that. If you find yourself feeling needy, DON'T THINK. If you're needy, you're not present. As Tolle says, they're can be no suffering when you're in the now. Just run to your computer as fast as you can and do some proper natural grounding (key word is proper). See how your state is after. If you haven't gotten to where it's proper, keep reading naturalgrounding.net and these forums until you crack the code. You'll know when you do. Amen.

Once you start making real progress, even the chick that tells you that she only wants to be friends will want you sexually all of the sudden. She will be doing double takes. The Jonathon mojo will be too irresistable. It will help to ignore her a bit too as you laugh to yourself and "put her on your sexual yo yo string". Ha ha! Permanently. By then, you probably won't want her cause she will start to get too needy for YOU. Booyah.

[jonathondd]

great stuff

Thanks a lot man I really appreciate it. Listening to Eckhart Tolle is a treat- because I really am fed up with suffering- I can't even believe myself that I'm so damn heartbroken over my ex even to this day. I mean its been almost more than half a year since we ended and I'm still upset over us not being together? Its ridiculous- I wouldn't expect that behavior from close friends of mine- and everytime things don't go my way in life- I think back to being with her and thoughts come up like "Maybe if she was still here to support you, things would've been better". Its driving me insane.

I am getting into Natural Grounding non-egoic states- I do feel a lot better and things do get easier. But then these bad feelings just come back and come back and come back(I was grounding yesterday night, teared up and everything and felt great as I went to bed- but this morning as SOON as I woke up thoughts of my ex came flooding in and I teared up about THAT, real frustrating).

But I suppose I can't expect change to come overnight- but I just have to stay on the right track. So I'll stay patient- and whoo boy that Yangtown eBook really makes me not want to watch any porn whatsoever.

Hmm if I were to over-analyze myself like I usually do, I think I've been especially emotional about it lately because my birthday is coming up- and my Ex even called me asking me what I was going to do for my birthday this year. I told her I had no idea and that I never really plan for my birthdays(its true, last 2 years she plan things out for me as a surprise..only person to really do that- this is the first bday after our breakup). She told me she'd think of something to do and I told her not to worry about it and I'll let her know. Because honestly what I'd like to do for my bday wouldn't involve her anyway. Although maybe I should've told her that in hindsight. I haven't given her a "call" just to tell her I don't want to see her anymore- but I do not hang around with her anymore. She'll call or txt me sometimes here and there for advice about something- and I don't respond right away but eventually I will in a non-chalant way.

We just have so many mutual friends that its also guaranteed that I will run into her- which is why I dont think theres much of a point to tell her "you're cut off from my life". But at least I dont have to hang onto her orbit like you said.

[jared2010]

I used to struggle with an ex being constantly around and have issues about it. I now represent the change that not only feels ok with it, but also having more fun women around me, that are more in tune with my joy. S-h-e can want me as much as she wants, she is getting the non-physical w/me

Don´t forget to treat yourself good, man! If you treat yourself good, then you know what kind of relationships you really deserve (with her/women), or automatically attract.

[jonathondd]

That's what I'd like to go back doing, been having a bit of a dry spell for like a month haven't really been seeing ANY women. In terms of online dating...where should I even go for that? I mean i live in NYC so there should be pleeeenty of women available. I tried craigslist once and there's nothing but spammers and bots there.

[jared2010]

a, I like to add what support and cheering up means to me, it is, having a definite purpose in Life and getting confirmation about that from people.

Cheering up isn´t about bringing my state up/down from the outside, I can access those states myself.

[zuprion]

Jonathon, If you practice presence more and more you will realize love comes from within as does joy, not from a woman. I always thought it came from the woman. What a revelation that was. If you're still getting upset over your ex, there's nothing wrong with that if you are still grieving. I think it's ok for a while and only you can decide if it's still just grieving because you were together a long time, or if it's more of an issue with you. I went through this and realized it was me. However, if you feel like there's a void in your life that she filled, that's not healthy. One way to tell is to be honest with yourself and ask yourself if it was there before you met her, and/or after other relationships ended. Women are an external source, just like food, drugs, money, vacations. All can unconsciously used as vices in unhealthy ways. The hardest one to admit is when the woman is the vice, because if we admit that, it means we have to look in the mirror. I just took a solid year off from dating because I realized I had to. Then I discovered grounding which has helped a lot.

Jared, after being away from women in this purposeful and dedicated way, I literally need ZERO validation from them now. I know this has taken me to a new level of independence and attraction. I've gotten to a point where I don't even need validation from anyone in any area of my life, professionally, socially, etc. This bird is free. I have come to believe no question that this should be the goal for the alpha man, even when (and particularly when) he's actively with women. If you think about it, if you need a woman's validation or peoples' validation in ANY way, what does that say about whose opinion you value more...theirs or yours? It's very subtle, but if you don't value your own more than anyone else's, ESPECIALLY your gf's, it's a form of giving your power away. Other people know it too. You're also limiting your own freedom. The man in the mirror is your master.

One last point is that every time I break through to a new level, it's literally like getting to see the new view at each plateau while climbing the mountain. In my case, as these are reached, it became crystal clear that the issues in my last relationship were just as much mine as they were hers. I didn't represent that to her though because while I was with her and for a while after, all I did was resent her (first girl that I was serious with that actually dumped me on my ass). Now I realize she had issues, but that I was clingy just as much and didn't realize it. Obviously I don't know how your relationships ended or why, but I realize that very often if you resent someone else it's to avoid looking at your own shortfalls. Now that I am where I am, I wouldn't trade those experiences nor the spiritual journey I've been on, for anything in the world. I am completely grateful for them because I know how to get happiness from within. I also realize now that until you love yourself completely, your relationships probably aren't going to last, and if they do they will likely not be healthy.

Jared has the right idea with finding the type of women that are more in touch with joy. When my self esteem used to be low, I didn't realize it but I actually sought hot women (like they were a trophy) who had issues who were a challenge, because at a deep level (subconsciously) I didn't think I was good enough. This is what a bad childhood can do to you. I'm very thankful that I've become aware and worked through it.

[jonathondd]

Well Zuprion I've been working on what you advised me on - and although I'm having swings up and down in my emotions- what I did notice..is that there are actual swings UP now. Just earlier this week I was speeding on the highway and suddenly felt immense gratitude for just even having the ability to do this when so many people don't even have a car to drive(haha even though its not even my own car but my dads) and was really happy.

I've been working on truly accepting that my relationship with my ex is "over" which is something I have been avoiding to do- and I think its a combination of me grieving about the relationship(it was really a great one while it lasted, I never had such a good relationship), and me feeling as if a void is missing in my life...there's so many activities I have just been plain avoiding just because they remind me of my ex because either its an activity we used to do together, or because I have this creeping feeling like I shouldn't have fun and need to continually perfect myself not for ME, but for HER.(Which leads to me feeling down and not having fun and not improving myself- and just sitting around endlessly self-analyzing)

So I'm stopping all that nonsense and freeing myself of that attachment. Like you said, if I even wanted to get back with her- I'd have to first let go of it instead of being obsessed about it.

- lol I think my problem may be putting on WCBS-F.M. 101.1 on the radio while I drive and hearing songs like "Someday we'll be together" by Diana Ross or Barry white "Let the music play"- ohh man did the tears flow from those songs- I feel like such a sap. But I tried to use that to my advantage by playing those sounds while grounding. I'm more often able to get really emotional while I'm grounding now.

My feelings on women have drastically changed during the course of natural grounding...although I haven't really noticed women checking me out or anything yet- I am thinking of women in a completely different way that I used to. A friend of mine was showing me a picture of some girl he's "talking to"(he hasn't even kissed her yet) and she's all taking pictures of her ass and sending it to him on his phone. As he's showing it to me...all I can think is...geez- is the social matrix making women think they HAVE to show off their body just to make men happy? I'd be pissed if I found my daughter takin pictures of herself and throwin them out on the internet for all men to see. Before grounding I'd probably say "daaaaamn she has a nice ass"- but now I was like "yeah she has a cute butt, but uhh do you know anything about HER?"

The one thing I've noticed I have issue with is unusually enough almost always happens after nights of sleep that were actually good(I always try to do some natural grounding before I hit the bed).
..is when I wake up in the morning! As soon as I wake up I'll get super depressed for hours and that makes it difficult to even get out of my bed, then after it reaches its apex of depression and self-hating- its like something happens and I start to relax again and even start to love myself again. Its annoying but something I have to consciously work on.